Where in the hell are the churches?

I don’t write about this topic lightly, and as you’ll see by the dates—I’ve allowed several months and multiple opportunities to pass.  I have no desire to ‘broad-brush’ an entire church based on the behavior of one or two representatives and NO WAY will I lie about a church, but as it turns out, my ‘now former church’ is a poster child for ‘religious political correctness’ crossing paths with ‘uncompromising reality.’  So as a result, I am now forced to use a much ‘looser definition’ of the word ‘church’… but this in no way diminishes my love for God.  ~JDG

I began attending Heartland Community Church in 2008 while it was still a small neighborhood church that often required parking in the street, but that of course, was before they moved into their new mega-complex (pictured below).  The people were cool.  The music was cool…and Pastor Deeble gave some very inspiring and thought-provoking sermons. For the first time in my life,  I actually felt I connected with a church — and I was diggin’ it.  Not to mention, they serve assorted flavors of premium-blend coffees for your sipping enjoyment during the sermon.

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Heartland Community Church, Kansas City – Pastor Dan Deeble

Last August, I was all set to be baptized when everything changed.  I had a ‘Spiritual Advisor/Sponsor’ and we talked about a ton of stuff.  I was asked to share things that were the most personal…and I did.  A few ‘man tears’ were even shed.  Everything was rockin along until my questions turned to why the church never mentions anything about our children being robbed of the religious freedoms that you and I took for granted… just 25 years ago?

Little did I know I had just entered the Forbidden Zone— I was now in the AREA 51 of Religious Political Correctness.

Fast forward eight months to now, and I am still uncertain if it was just ‘the mere mention of Caesar’ OR the fact that I suggested that ‘Caesar may not have our best interest at heart’ — but regardless, I’ve been ridiculed, insulted and/or ignored by multiple Heartland reps since I brought it up.  My request to be baptized was NEVER again even acknowledged by Heartland… although I was encouraged to ‘try another church’.

“Heather can have two mommies—but Johnny can’t have a bible?”  

How in the hell can a church remain a ‘silent dis-interested third party’ when our own children are being subjected to NOT just a ‘God Neutral’ system, but to a Militant Anti-God Agenda?  Christmas is already banned … but they’re allowed to say FU*K”?  OR how about how our symbols–our crosses & The Ten Commandments– being ripped down… Or that it’s become a CRIME to pray on public property?

OH…and as of this writing, now Caesar is trying to force Catholic Hospitals to provide services against their teaching?  Are you kidding me?  Even, if, like me, you’re not Catholic —this should scare the hell out of Christians of all denominations… from all parts of our country.

This hostility from the Federal Government was ‘completely unheard of’ 25 years ago.—-How is this none of our business?

What’s changed over the past 25 years?  Man or God?

Sadly, Heartland cannot be singled out.  More and  more churches won’t even discuss the topic—even in private.  LifePointe Church also in Kansas City is another—very nice people, but don’t question Caesar.

Some have suggested—and I believe reasonably so— that most of these ‘silent churches’ hold on tighter to their 503 (c) tax exemption status that they hold to their bible.  This does not ‘excuse’ their acquiescence to ‘anti-God’ forces— it spotlights it.

How are ‘churches that refuse to speak of Caesar for fear of losing their ‘tax status’ different from ‘the money-changers’ in Matthew 21:12?  [Which also demonstrates that Jesus was no pacifist either.]

Please add your church to the comment section below… while it is profoundly important to smoke out the ‘fake churches’…  it’s even MORE important to recognize the churches that actually stand up for Christianity, stay true to God’s word and are not paralyzed by political correctness.

Contrary to popular belief—there is no “Freedom of Speech” exclusion for Christians.

AUTHOR’S NOTE:  This is not a debate about the separation of church and state, but we will get to that soon.  So, you folks yelling about “Thomas Jefferson’s Letter to The Danbury Baptists”— simmer down.  Actually you may want to read TJ’s letter in it’s entirety (as opposed to just your one favorite phrase) — so you will be better prepared when I dissect your absurd anti-God arguments like a biology class frog.  We will also look closely at ‘the deciding vote of the 1947 Supreme Court Case cast by KKK member Hugo Black”…  But make no mistake, no matter how hard some may try to hide, erase and manipulate our Christian Heritage–although it can be hidden, History does not lie. The United States absolutely WAS founded on Judeo-Christian values… and unlike you loudmouth unholy jackasses, we have documented historical data to support our claims.

In closing, contrary to popular notions–Christians are STILL the majority in America, so I’d like to encourage you guys to ask your own churchDON’T BE AGGRESSIVE OR ARGUMENTATIVE— be respectful.  This is not a game or a contest, and kindness may actually even make them re-consider with a new perspective.  But neither should you allow them to change the subject… which is a very popular response.

I’m not a perfect man, and I don’t claim to be—but neither is any other man…and this is precisely why we need God, and it is precisely why we need our churches to practice honesty… not just preach about it.

If our churches ARE in support of Caesar’s hostility–according to our own teachings, it’s the church’s duty to be honest with us.   If the church is against this government hostility, it’s their duty to be honest about that as well…  but there is no way on God’s green earth that the church would not have an opinion regarding “attacks ON the church.”  No Way.

God bless you guys, and God bless America—it’s time to stand up. 

Joe Dan Gorman, JoeDanMedia.com

 

About the Author

Joe Dan Gorman
Joe Dan Gorman is the creator, host & producer of Intellectual Froglegs. Nominated for VIDEO BLOGGER OF THE YEAR at CPAC 2013. Former Real Estate Investment Broker until real estate collapse in 2007. When he is not creating and producing wicked coolness, he is busy performing liberal exorcisms, playing guitar and sharing his testimony and love for Jesus Christ.
  • I, like you have been questioning the silence of the Christian community for a long time. Thankfully the congregation I worship with does speak to us about these matters. I have found that the popularity of so-called non-denominational churches (I use the term ‘church’ loosely here) are more about entertainment than about worship.

    When my husband and I found the purity of Biblical worship in the church (intentionally not capitalized) of Christ we began a journey that has led to much peace. The churches of Christ (no relation of Obama’s church) across the country have no central hierarchy and no authority or approved printed literature other than God’s Word. For the most part though you will find a unity from congregation to congregation that usually would come through some centralized authority like the Southern Baptist Convention, etc.

    I was stunned that you needed to request baptism and that it was denied. People can’t decide who is added to Christ’s church. That is something only you and God can decide. Problems do arise because like all humans, some fall away from Bibical instruction. I pray that you find a congregation to worship with soon as we are instructed not to forsake the assembly with the family of God….

    • Thanks for the comment. For the record, they did not ‘deny’ my request— it was simply ignored.

      And also for the records, I would LOVE to update this piece with a happier ending… but that of course, is up to Heartland.

      As I told them in my last communication, my heart and my door is open to them.

    • daaixin

      WELL PUT.

      Where are the D Bonhoeffers . . . particularly now that Chuck Colson has graduated?

      Franklin Graham makes a good stab now and then.

      Pat Robertson says some good strongly truthful things when he’s not also sticking his foot in his mouth as well.

      Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland can tell it like it is on more than a few occasions.

      John Sandford tells it like it is.

      Calvary Chapel’s Chuck Smith et al tend to do so as well.

      Yet, other than maybe Franklin Graham and he only occasionally . . . I don’t know of anyone taking the fight to the enemy and calling the evil kings and elites to account regardless of the cost.

      That day will come.

      Christ will return for a spotless OVERCOMING Church HE HAS MADE SPOTLESS. And those unwilling to go through the wash and bleach cycle will be thrown on the pile to be burned or spat out as luke warm and retched.

      May God have mercy on us who truly seek His face and will . . . and wholeness in our lives. May He finish what He has started in all of us quite thoroughly.

      May we all hear and obey His Voice day by day . . .

      Day by day . . .

      • One day at a time…ultimately it is the individual’s duty to discern good from evil. Discernment is not being judgmental, it is being normal. Figs don’t grow on olive trees, right? There is only one judge and His judgement is the only one that counts. I pray my race will be run with grace, mercy and above all love….

        • daaixin

          I AGREE WITH YOU.

          Grace under pressure . . . tribulation works patience which yields . . . character . . . hmmm

          Please change me Lord . . . preferably in my sleep. LOL.

  • AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!! I whole-heartedly agree! For too long decent, God-fearing people have been told to be quiet, to keep our “religion” inside the church building even though Jesus spent little time talking to religious people. He said it was the sick who needed a physician – but somehow most of our churches have forgotten that and are little more than social clubs. This is also why, in my opinion, the Church as a whole is impotent in facilitating real change!

    Reblogging …

  • Reblogged this on blogsense-by-barb and commented:
    For too long decent, God-fearing people have been told to be quiet, to keep our “religion” inside the church building even though Jesus spent little time talking to religious people. He said it was the sick who needed a physician – but somehow most of our churches have forgotten that and are little more than social clubs. This is also why, in my opinion, the Church as a whole is impotent in facilitating real change!

  • L.L.

    OoRah!!!! It is time to stand up!

    “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery”
    ~Galatians 5

  • Thank you Todd! Feel free to mention your awesome church… God bless you man

  • LesaTParty

    It took a little while for the message about the attacks on religious freedoms to trickle down from the USCCB (U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops) statements in January and February to reach the local Catholic pulpits, but I was happily surprised that our pastor has mentioned it on several occasions since then.

    In the meantime, take heart — the shepherds are not all turning a blind eye. You may appreciate this message from a northern Indiana pulpit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltTd81XpDnc&feature=youtu.be

  • Carol C. Hamm

    This is a very thought provoking blog. Some of your thoughts Joe Dan, I have been thinking about for years. I am and have been working in the church as a choirmaster, Pipe Organist, MInister of Music, which come with pay. However, my personal relationship with my Lord………..is totally awesome. It is with zeal for the Lord I do my work. However, I have experienced the church as the most political place I have ever been. It is made up of…………people….who are Democrats or Republicans or Indepdendents. At times I have seen this played out in the church….sadly…I say this. There are divisions that begin because of these differences. A place where I saw as a haven away from all this ……..well……….really is NOT. But, if you talk with the pastor about this ………..they will always………….really try with there heart not to admit that his is acutally going on…………..after my rebaptism this year………..I pay no attention. I just love Lord with all my heart and with all my soul. This solved my problem. They who do not do this miss out………….totally on what Jesus is about.

  • shadowpatriot64

    Joe Dan, this was a very courageous, intimate, and heartfelt post. I wonder where the churches of our youth have gone… those that preached Hell is real, that acceptance of a risen savior who was sacrificed for our sins was replaced with perversions that are someone’s “interpretation”. Now “Chrislam” is being touted by Rick Warren and a well known mega TV preacher with millions does not put a cross in his “church.” The churches of today are the churches in Revelation and they were judged and spit out of God’s mouth. There ARE good churches out there, those who still preach the gospel as the inerrant word of God. I have yet to find one personally in my area but when I ever do, I will be the first one at the door. 99% of Christians who are no longer in church are disillusioned with church due to social justice being preached and lack of true Word of God being taught. I am sorry you were hurt by this. God sees all and the churches are not hidden or exempt from judgment that He will make.

  • Dani

    oh boy. First of all, let me say that your post is powerful, challenging and thought provoking, JD. Well done!

    My initial thought is, “Oh, of COURSE we talk about these things in church!” But you know, it’s more than that, I think. At the church where I attend, we are of course very concerned about things in the culture of the day that are challenging our very freedoms…but I think too, there is a tendency among some Christians to think that if Jesus were here today, he’d be a card carrying member of the GOP.

    I doubt it.

    Politically, I’m about as far-right reaching as you can get…and you’ll regularly hear me pontificating about how the GOP is too soft on social issues and ignores the conservative base of their party. So I do *get* what you’re saying.

    But you know, politics will always leave us wanting more. Social issues will always leave us feeling bitter. Politicians will always fail and disappoint us. Because when it all comes down, what’s right and good and perfect in this world can only be Jesus. Not a church, or a pastor, or a president. (*cough*)

    So, when we talk of societal issues in our church, I think it’s more that we’re talking about how Jesus can make us different in this world…through the power of the Holy Spirit we are called to be salt and light. If we can truly know Jesus, we can make Him known to other people who are hurting…and JESUS can change their hearts.

    Heather doesn’t have two mommies (for example) because of political legislation or because of any leftist agenda, ultimately, but because of the condition of Heather’s mommy’s heart. Heather’s mommy is hurting and looking for–anything–that can fill that God-shaped void in her heart. In my opinion, the best thing we can do as a church and as individual Christians is not to preach condemnation to Heather’s mommy, but to show her the way to True Love. We can all quote John 3:16,”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life,” but we sometimes forget verse 17: “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”

    I will admit, I have grappled with these thoughts for a long LONG time, and it’s truly an ever-evolving struggle in my own heart and mind. But I guess this is where I stand TODAY. 🙂

    Ultimately, I guess I feel as the Church, we should stand for Absolute Truth in our convictions, and speak out when those truths are being threatened or violated…and to offer practical, sound, biblical teaching to show people how we should live…but on a personal one-to-one basis, our most important job is to demonstrate the unmerited and completely over-the-top GRACE that God has extended to us…and to further extend that same grace to any and all who are seeking to find Him.

    When all else fails, I *always* seek to err on the side of GRACE.

    oh, and I will totally give a plug for the little church that our family calls home: http://www.newdaykc.org

  • God bless y’all for the replies….

    With the greatest of respect this is not about politics, anymore than it is about condemning the world.

    Please let’s not over-convolute this…. This is about right and wrong.

    This is about hostilities & attacks on our faith, our symbols & traditions that only began to occur over the past 20 years… and our churches do what? With few exceptions, they have done nothing.

    Edmund Burke said “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

    These are serious times…. You either support God’s principles of morality, or you don’t. This is not a buffet, where entree’s may be switched out for something with No Trans Fat.

    Alexis de Tocqueville said (and I paraphrase) “You cannot have freedom without morality, and you cannot have morality without God.”

    We have already allowed them to steal our First Amendment’s Freedom of Religion clause… its in tatters. There will be nothing left of it at all, if we don’t say something NOW.

    No one is suggesting anarchy at all, Christians are absolutely instructed to obey the laws of the nations in which they live because they have been put in power by God. See Romans 13:1-7. HOWEVER—> when those authorities tell us to disobey God, we must ignore them. See Acts 5:16-42.

    • Robert James Burkholder

      I completed nearly two years at the local Bible College,when they went belly up for financial reasons. IMO you nailed it when there was reference to the 501C3 status.
      I know preachers who will not preach on certain topics deemed “controversial” because the Church Board most often worries most about any possible interruption in the church business than they worry about planting the good seed of the Gospel.
      What Preacher would want the IRS agents harassing the Congregants and perhaps putting a hold on the church funds for the duration of an ill defined investigation.Bill must be paid no matter what. But this was a good article. Expressing thoughts I have had myself. Just finished a letter to the City Council of Hutchinson KS that is considering City Ordinance that has no basis in Federal or even Kansas State Law
      that so poorly defines the terms used I am reminded of the man whose cow was so dumb the Vet saw grey matter in the Rectal prolapse. (probably one reason I am
      unchurched. My sense of humor and style were shaped by 8 yrs as an Army Medic
      and an Irish /German ancestry.

  • Joe Dan,

    You’ve just been ‘slimmed’ by Christianity lite (no salt or light was utilized in making this product).

    I’m always leery of a church so HUGE as to require its own zip code. If a church is that HUGE and it’s not branching out to plant other churches, that should be a BIG RED FLAG in your mind’s eye.

    I’m here on the Missouri side (lee’s summit) and there’s still plenty of good ol’ Baptist churches eager to get their hands dirty with the kind of ‘good fight’ you advocate.

    Come on over, Brother!

    • Dani

      “no salt or light was utilized….”

      LOL!

  • Dani

    OK, You’re totally right in that. (I warned you, I’m not a gifted writer! so I’m sure my thoughts are convoluted, at best, here.)

    So let me ask you, then…what is it that you would have a church–or THE Church–do that they are currently not doing?

    • Dani

      i meant to leave that comment in reply to Joe Dan…oops. This danged ol internet. It’s confusigating for an old lady like me.

    • What would I have the church do? Actually…kind of a fun thought. While I’m pretending to be in charge…I’ll pretend we have plenty of money too.

      Check it out: Judeo-Christians make up the VAST majority of Americans, right? And even most of your ‘not so devout members’ at least believe in the principles of morality provided in The Ten Commandments. We’re a SERIOUS Super Majority by any definition.

      So…. we organize a meeting of the top officials of ALL Judeo-Christian denominations. Catholics, Jews, Baptist, Methodist, Non-denominational, Evangelical, Presbyterian….everyone of them….in essence, every branch of the Judeo-Christian Tree.

      Then we SLAP some sense into their heads. Educate these guys.

      And with ONE common goal of “taking our religious freedom back”—we start challenging EVERY one of these unconstitutional laws…LOUDLY. So loudly that even when the Secular Media ignores us (as we know they will)… we’ll be heard any damn way.

      And we force the Supreme Court’s hand… Then with the top attorneys from Landmark Legal…

      We begin The Great Re-Awakening.

      • Dani

        🙂

        OK, so you really have got in my head with this tonight. Gonna keep thinking…I’ll be back!

        Thanks for the challenge, Joe Dan. Good stuff.

      • Cathy

        re-
        “What would I have the church do? Actually…kind of a fun thought. While I’m pretending to be in charge…I’ll pretend we have plenty of money too.”

        Hi Joe Dan, at first I liked your forthright approach to the problems in todays Churches
        (assemblies). Of course some comments seemed cocky but you got your point across. But I was disappointed in the above reply even though you state that it is “a fun thought”. The world is on a fast track to hell and the church is following with its self-deception. So it appeared that your reply was typical carnality, veering down another path, instead of the dead serious approach to mans eternity. All it takes is being off one degree on the Transit, to be miles away from the original mark as we go down this path of “The Way”. Therin the Lords warning of the “narrow-way” to life or the broad-way to distruction.

      • Hi Cathy:

        When I stated ‘a fun thought’ —come to think of it —it may have been a poor choice of words — What I meant was that it would be profoundly flattering to be considered for such an important undertaking… and I would be required to pretend to have the necessary money ro pull everyone together.

        But I absolutely do stand by the rest of it. — because I actually believe that could be done.

        The question was….. what do we, as Judea-Christians— do here in America regarding the non-stop attacks on ALL Judea-Christian faiths? This was in no way a question about individual salvation….

        Because if we do not stand together—we will not stand at all for long.

        But as you believe my answer was ‘typical carnality’ and cocky…. I would be interested in your solution.

        Thanks for the comment

      • Cathy

        Hi again Joe Dan,
        There was’nt a reply link to your reply to me, so I am replying to the original message.
        Thank you for your gracious reply. I perceive that we would be able to disagree agreeably. I greive over the condition of the Church and just want to be a good Berean. I read a statement that we all should consider, “what if you wake up one day and realize that what you thought was Christianity, is not Christianity at all”.
        No, I dont know the answers, I just know the One who does.
        And as I pray and seek God’s face, I am seeing more and more the state of the Church, AND myself. I hope you perceive that I was not attacking you. But! we all have been tainted with the PC attitude. Notice comments made about judging others, and it being taboo. When in reality it may be a false humility. The stratigies of the enemy has slithered into the passive, sweet, loving, Babylon growing intoxicated church. If we judge ourselves, God wont have to. HE alone, is the only answer. And He very simply tells us what to do in these times. 2nd Chron. 7:14 “If my people which are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land”.

        • Robert James Burkholder

          And the Apostle Paul said These things shall not be unless there is a falling away first. IMO I wonder if we are not witness to the falling away? If so we are to remain steadfast-and we will receive the reward.

  • Really good stuff, here. You relating a very real problem that all corporate churches have, until the contraceptive thing even the Catholics (with all of their history and tradition) were seemed to not care so much about doctrine and truth as about (forced) good works. Keep questioning.

  • Sheri G.G.

    I attended a church once that was very similar to the one you described above. Started out in a school gym, but then turned into a mega church. Real sin was never discussed. It was more like the “church of the feel good”. I left. I now attend Heritage Freewill Baptist and I am VERY happy there. Not only do I “feel good”, but the pastor isn’t shy about calling a spade a spade regarding the government, or what the Bible says about sin. Very Bible based, which I think is most important. I think I now have the best pastor I’ve ever had. He is a very humble, down to earth, kind man. He’s also quite the practical joker. What a blessing he and my church family is!

  • Jfg71

    I agree with what you wrote. And let me add there are churches and preachers who are afraid to preach about the reality of hell and the consequences of sin. Along with political correctness, we have watered down our sermons to make people feel good. If you don’t step on a few toes, you are not doing your job in the pulpit.

  • Sean

    I got one thing to say about the Christian Church in America. Ichabod.

    • Indeed… and for those unfamiliar with Ol’ Ichabod, think Righteous Brothers “You’ve lost that loving feeling”—nah….

      Ichabod’s a better analogy.

  • I am Catholic and have listened to all the criticisms of the priest scandal since I graduated from Catholic school in 2000. I will always condemn the actions of those individuals but it is still being used as an attack against anything the church says or does. I have been very pleased with the way the Church has been fighting back against the government but at the same time, I’m disgusted with the way it has been used against them. Because of the HHS mandate, we are now in some imaginary “war on women” (funny since I’m a 29 yr old single woman) and there was a bishop who spoke out about the disturbing similarities to what our government is doing and how Hitler and Stalin rose to power. For drawing attention to this, some have branded it as “political speech” and are insisting on an IRS investigation. The Pope took a stand against the Catholic nuns that are actively opposing Church teachings on gays and abortion and in return, we are now more concerned with gay-bashing than helping the poor according to some media outlets. I would’e preferred that the Church addressed the issue of these “Catholics in name only” years ago but the scandal with the priests has caused us to have a dramatic drop in the number of men and women willing to become priests and nuns. I also wanted to thank you for your comments on standing with us against this war on our freedom of religion. I sometimes go to a local evangelical church for services and have been explaining to everyone that this issue affects all people of faith. First they came for the Catholics, and I said nothing because I wasn’t a Catholic…..I think we know how the rest of that goes. God Bless!!

    • I would guess that many here are Evangelicals, You are Catholic, and I am Lutheran, it doesn’t matter: WE ARE THE CHURCH, We are Christendom, and more to the point we are western civilization. Without us, it all fall to ruins, and the opposition knows it. We are the rock, we have known tribulation since the Roman Empire and we will prevail if we are steadfast.

      God bless that Bishop. And I pray that the Pope hurls some of those legendary thunderbolts at some of the apostates in our government.

      • I agree. I was not taught to have hostility towards any denomination and in my eyes, we are all Christians and we all believe in the same God. We all believe that Jesus died for our salvation and we all believe that the Bible is the word of God. The rest are just minor differences in Church doctrine. In fact, the word “Catholic” means “universal” and right now is one of those times when we all should remember what was said in the bible

        So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
        -Galatians 3:26-29

        God Bless and remember that we are and will always be bigger and stronger than the enemy as long as we have the Lord on our side!! 🙂

  • Andy Gregson

    Thank you for your honesty and courage in writing about this subject. The church,like man, is imperfect and some are just bad. Experiences like the one you had drive too many away from the church. I am sorry and it makes me sad. Thankfully, I have found a church body and a pastor that is the opposite of this church. If you are open to the Pentecostal style of worship I would encourage you to try a Church of God or Assembly of God church. Please don’t give up on the church. You need it and it needs you. God bless you.

  • Wow, wow, wow….. What I am witnessing here is nothing short of remarkable…

    I’m getting notes from all denominations coming together in one voice—“Back off Caesar” Holy cow, this is cool. PRAISE GOD!!!

    Now they’re going to brand this as “political” — but its only because they made it so. This is about right vs wrong, dark verses light, good vs evil…

    As far as I’m concerned, under this magnificent Judea-Christian umbrella— we are all brothers and sisters… and the Jewish people… with whom we share a lot of scripture, are our cousins. And we are ALL affected by this.

    I hope you’ll subscribe… cuz we’re just getting started. God bless…

  • Michael Tobias

    Joe Dan, it’s no better over here on the Jewish side. Synagogues are more interested in better buildings and supporting the Left wing status quo. Painful to see.

  • Greg

    If the music is cool and the coffee is good, the church is probably focusing on the wrong things.

    I really don’t know what to make of your church or your relationship with the church. The fact that a simple question from a faily new believer shuts down discussion is strange and concerning. Maybe they don’t see a real dangerand think you are exaggerating in a joking way and they don’t realize how you are perceiving their words. Or maybe you might want to take their suggestion to try another church.

    I highly recommend this article for evaluating any church, including the one you are in: http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA121/what-should-i-look-for-when-choosing-a-new-church-home No church is perfect, but these guideline are at least a good idea of what to look for.

    “In closing, contrary to popular notions–Christians are STILL the majority in America”

    I look at the culture and can’t help doubting this. The nominal Christians, Christians in name only, might be the majority, but those actually committed to following Christ are most certainly not.

    It’s past my bedtime, I have to work in the morning, and my thoughts are all over the place on this. I’ll say a prayer for you for wisdom in dealing with it

    • I agree with your assertion that the majority are ‘nominal Christians’ however, I also believe that even most of these ‘nominal Christians’ are not ‘Anti-Ten Commandments’….not even remotely close to these irrational, hate-filled ‘militant Anti-God people’ whose hearts are unbelievably hardened.

      And regarding the communication with the Church—- This was no joke, and there was no misinterpretation. Following the communications there were specific communications exchanged regarding the insults. …. And like I said in the first paragraph—multiple church reps were asked.

      The music & coffee aside—a church that inflicts pain on those seeking Jesus is no church.

      With God’s guidance I will continue my search for my church… but in the meantime—I believe in my heart that if we do not expose these fake churches/false Teachers—we are in essence helping them.

      So, we’re going to be doing some ‘testing’

      “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” ~ 1 John 4:1

      “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. ~ Revelation 2:2

      • Gary

        You are quite amazing Dan. I’m still looking for a real church. I and my family need one. Godspeed.

      • Greg

        ” a church that inflicts pain on those seeking Jesus is no church”

        That’s not necessarily true; it just has to be the right kind of pain for the right reason.

        John 4:17–18 (NKJV) The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”

        Do you think that caused some pain? Confronting sin usually does. It just has to be done with the right attitude and right motivation.

        I know that’s not the case in the experience you had, but please be careful in stating lessons learned from one incident as universal truths.

  • I don’t come from the Protestant tradition so I won’t comment on any of that stuff. I will however note that my Metropolitan (Jonah) signed the Manhattan Declaration. If you haven’t read it you may want to take a look here…
    http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/home.aspx

    ICXC NIKA
    John

  • For the record—I have been criticized for using an ‘un-Christian” title. Good grief…. Prioritize people. The phrase ‘in the hell’ describes our location.

    • Amazing piece Joe Dan, Where in the hell is our country. Please God Help us..

    • Robert James Burkholder

      Jim — my daddy taught us folks will say what folks will say. What matters is the heart.
      I read the piece and it was good. Maybe the critics will produce something better?
      Doesn’t seem so.Only God knows the heart.IMO ya did good .Well done thou good and faithful servant.

  • Reblogged this on Intellectual Frog Legs.

  • As a follow up… Heartand Community Church—the KC Church that denied me baptism— earlier tonight, emailed the reason for their decision to turn me away…

    “I understand that you used your Baptism Class as a opportunity to share your ideas and it freaked some people out.” Men’s Ministry (person)

    The only problem? I never attended a Baptism Class. I had ‘one on one’ sessions.

    I’m stunned. This “so-called church” is out and out lying about me.

    Wow…

  • Hey Joe Dan if you need a good church in the Kansas City Area check out Northland Baptist on the Missouri side of town it is on Waukomis drive.We would love to have you.God Bless!!!

    7101 NW Waukomis Dr Kansas City, MO 64151 (816) 587-2268

  • Thomas Posey

    Joe Dan, These “churches” need to change their name. That church you went to should be called “Heartland Community Worship Building” as the Church is not the place of worship, but the Saints of God who fill them.
    A couple good preachers online are:
    Pastor J.D. Farag of Calvery Chapel Kaneohe
    Robert Breaker of the cloud church
    Both have a presence on Youtube.
    neohe